Thinkenn
Member
This is going to be a read.. Its my first post, and somewhat of an explination and update all wrapped into one.
Rather then tout prowess, I thought I would just go right into it and lay it down promptly. I've hit a brick wall with this. I am brand new to the forum, I love my Chevy. I tried to fix it, I need some help getting it over the last bump. I'll get right to it. My name is Kenn, I am a 2nd year HD mechanic apprentice, truck driver, and father. I have a busy mind and a mechanical heart. I love my truck.. GM's will forever have me as a dedicated believer.
I've owned my 2000 Silverado 1500 since April 2014. Indigo blue metallic, grey interior, tool box, bed cover, stock right to the lug-nuts. 5.3L Vortec bolted to a 4L60-e automatic. NP8 t-case. 4:10 ratio on 245/75/r16's. I bought it for $1000.00 (saved it from the crusher pretty much) and it was in rough shape. Both rockers were rotted out from farmer running boards on it. Fender lips were rotted thru, all 4. The underside looked like it was subjected to a warm acid bath. CARFAX checked out however and it had no liens, or money owed. It had never been twisted, or modified in any way. 325 000 kms on the chassis. 2 owners. Dealer built stock item, not a owner build. Plain Jane but severely neglected.
Mechanically, The 4wd was in operable when I got it. Sensors worked and no codes unless the 'auto 4wd' button was selected, later determined that the 'auto4wd' clutch pack had been murdered to nothing. Wrong oil in the t-case, and it burnt up. It had a GM10 bolt 4:10 open rear end which at some point a new (er) crown and pinion had been installed. However not a matched set, and it wasn't set up correctly (howl), way over .08 play (.167). Worn cross-pin etc. Clunk into gear.. clunk into reverse...yeah. Expected.
The front clip wasn't much good either, all four ball-joints needed to be replaced along with inner tie rod ends, outer tie rod ends and wheel bearings. The front diff leaked resulting in the owner driving the vehicle (speculation) which resulted in the total destruction of the front crown and pinion.
So. I felt..well.. SORRY for the thing really. The previous owner had(has) no respect for vehicles. Took a perfectly good truck and neglected the crap out of it. ON the bright side.. the engine was beautiful. Oil was changed every 5000kms without so much as a slip. The transmission needed a fluid change and a new filter. I vowed to fix it.. and keep using it... because underneath all of that there's a good reliable truck waiting.
Yes I could have purchased a truck that didn't have all these problems. But I wanted to learn about it. To do that.. fix it. Dive in.. get intimate.
I bought a roll over 99 GMC Sierra for a case of beer and some mechanical work. I decided to use this truck to fix my Silverado. Take all the broken parts off the silverado.. and put all the good parts off the 2500 on. Make it into a 1500HD. Or "Heavy-Half". Over build it.
I replaced the rear differential with a GM 12 bolt LSD. I went from 4.10 rears to 3.73. Wheels changed from 6bolt 16's to 8 bolt 16's. I got the drive-shaft shortened and changed the input yoke to match that of the stock driveshaft. I changed the springs and removed the lifting blocks as the 12bolt spring perch has a rise in it, where the 10 bolt's perch is nearly flush with the axle tube. Returned the ride height to stock 1500 non z71 stance. And swapped the extended 1500 bump stop for the 2500 bump stop. (just a rubber bushing bolted to the frame instead of the extended component)
The replacement t-case came off a 4L80-e transmission. Realized the output primary between the two transmissions is different. Blew the t-case apart and swapped the 4-low primary input cog from the NP8 off the silverado to get the mating right. I installed a new pump (with the anti wear tabs) and put new bearings, seals, races in it before buttoning it up and installing it in the truck. Did it all on the bench.
The stock front diff was replaced with the heavier variant to match that of the rear differential housing. As a pair. 3.73 gears open configuration. I got the axle shafts, lower control arms, upper control arms, wheel ends, bearings and brake hardware, torque rods, and torque rod bracket-keys with the diff to ensure there was no un-sprung weight problems, and maintain the structural integrity of the front suspension. THIS is where I hit two pretty hefty snags. One snag was the differential housing off the 2500 is 15% larger overall, with a much longer pinion then the 1/2 tonne diff. Larger ring gear, and just overall beefier. I had to shave the housing in a few areas to squeak it in.. I had to shim the passenger side bolt up mount, re-position the bushings to center the diff in the narrower chassis, I finished it off by fabricating a new lower bracket pocket (bolt in) so it could be secured to the truck adequately and keep the front end from folding itself in.
Because I swapped the rear diff and changed the bolt pattern, I did not want to run 2 different spares with the truck. 8 bolt out back.. 8 bolt up front. This meant the wheel ends needed to change as the wheel bearings are different. Also the brakes between the trucks are different and I wanted equal braking all around the truck. The lower control arms as you already know are a direct dimensional replacement with very minor differences. One has a kick in it (the 2500) and the other is flat (1500). I can live with that. However the upper control arms between the series are quite different dimentionally. Well into the not-compatible category. The reach on the 2500 is shorter (to bolt up to the tapered ball joint receiver on the wheel end) along with the taper shape and this equates to a suspension geometry problem during its cycle (full extend to full compression) due to radius sweep differences. And the mount locations on the frame rail are different, the 2500 rear bushing mount is further aft then the 1500. The 2500 is a wide arm, where the 1500 is narrow arm. One is made from stamped steel, and the other is a cast piece. They might work if the truck had a 4inch suspension lift.. ones that repositions the lower control arm bolt locations and dropps the differential to maintain CV shaft angles, however I don't want a lifted truck. I already have a Ranger that's lifted and this isn't a bush truck.. this is my winter driving highway wagon toy hauler road-trip maker.
The 1/2 shafts (cv's) between the 2500 and the 1500 have a length difference (9-16ths) which results in the need to swap the wheel-end spline on the 2500 half-shaft to that of the 1500. If the 2500 half shaft is installed as is.. under full extension the shaft bottoms out inside the CV pockets. Now this is a 'projected' solution. I'm saying I haven't done it yet. But being that the front clip dimensions between the trucks are different and GM is known to keep things dirt simple across series. I EXPECT this will be the solution as the splined outer on the half-shaft likely has the same internal dimensions as the heavier 2500 counterpart. Pull one off, and install the other.. voila.
I obviously can't align the truck in this configuration. (upper control arms off of a 1500 and lower control arm, wheel end 2500) without the replacement of the upper control arm to correct the suspension geometry. As it sits bolted together right now.. when the suspension compresses there is a severe toe out condition, and under extension its an opposite toe in situation. The tie rod and the lower ball joint cycle together but the upper joint radius is not in sync with the tie rod end or the lower ball joint. Not to mention to get the truck to sit close to right, the camber adjustment bolts must be cranked all the way in till they turn no more (all the way in), and the ride height up front must be reduced to get it to not look...well.. stupid. To make matters worse.. it can be set up empty and be near true alignment, but the moment any weight is put in the truck.. a toe in situation begins to emerge and negitive camber starts to appear.
I have a couple of options, but I am interested in some other input into this rather then experimenting and throwing allot of money at a problem when there's a perfect solution buried somewhere. I have searched google for the last week, and spoke to a few custom companies but not the right ones as no one appears to be answering my emails. I need a custom upper control arm.. one with the short reach of the 2500 but the narrow bushing width of the 1500 all in one package. At last resort I will make one. But being that so much rides on this upper control arm, the idea of making one is asking for trouble. I'm not an engineer.
There are going to be folks asking why, and I understand that what I have done may not appear to be very logical, and I understand, know its quite alright. Innovation is innovation. I climb a mountain cause its there. I am looking for a solution, the best one. These days ya gotta fix what ya got instead of just giving up and going the ignorant route.
I have hundreds of pictures documenting the build, before and after shots..etc. As soon as I get the time, I will upload and place them in this thread.
-kenn
Rather then tout prowess, I thought I would just go right into it and lay it down promptly. I've hit a brick wall with this. I am brand new to the forum, I love my Chevy. I tried to fix it, I need some help getting it over the last bump. I'll get right to it. My name is Kenn, I am a 2nd year HD mechanic apprentice, truck driver, and father. I have a busy mind and a mechanical heart. I love my truck.. GM's will forever have me as a dedicated believer.
I've owned my 2000 Silverado 1500 since April 2014. Indigo blue metallic, grey interior, tool box, bed cover, stock right to the lug-nuts. 5.3L Vortec bolted to a 4L60-e automatic. NP8 t-case. 4:10 ratio on 245/75/r16's. I bought it for $1000.00 (saved it from the crusher pretty much) and it was in rough shape. Both rockers were rotted out from farmer running boards on it. Fender lips were rotted thru, all 4. The underside looked like it was subjected to a warm acid bath. CARFAX checked out however and it had no liens, or money owed. It had never been twisted, or modified in any way. 325 000 kms on the chassis. 2 owners. Dealer built stock item, not a owner build. Plain Jane but severely neglected.
Mechanically, The 4wd was in operable when I got it. Sensors worked and no codes unless the 'auto 4wd' button was selected, later determined that the 'auto4wd' clutch pack had been murdered to nothing. Wrong oil in the t-case, and it burnt up. It had a GM10 bolt 4:10 open rear end which at some point a new (er) crown and pinion had been installed. However not a matched set, and it wasn't set up correctly (howl), way over .08 play (.167). Worn cross-pin etc. Clunk into gear.. clunk into reverse...yeah. Expected.
The front clip wasn't much good either, all four ball-joints needed to be replaced along with inner tie rod ends, outer tie rod ends and wheel bearings. The front diff leaked resulting in the owner driving the vehicle (speculation) which resulted in the total destruction of the front crown and pinion.
So. I felt..well.. SORRY for the thing really. The previous owner had(has) no respect for vehicles. Took a perfectly good truck and neglected the crap out of it. ON the bright side.. the engine was beautiful. Oil was changed every 5000kms without so much as a slip. The transmission needed a fluid change and a new filter. I vowed to fix it.. and keep using it... because underneath all of that there's a good reliable truck waiting.
Yes I could have purchased a truck that didn't have all these problems. But I wanted to learn about it. To do that.. fix it. Dive in.. get intimate.
I bought a roll over 99 GMC Sierra for a case of beer and some mechanical work. I decided to use this truck to fix my Silverado. Take all the broken parts off the silverado.. and put all the good parts off the 2500 on. Make it into a 1500HD. Or "Heavy-Half". Over build it.
I replaced the rear differential with a GM 12 bolt LSD. I went from 4.10 rears to 3.73. Wheels changed from 6bolt 16's to 8 bolt 16's. I got the drive-shaft shortened and changed the input yoke to match that of the stock driveshaft. I changed the springs and removed the lifting blocks as the 12bolt spring perch has a rise in it, where the 10 bolt's perch is nearly flush with the axle tube. Returned the ride height to stock 1500 non z71 stance. And swapped the extended 1500 bump stop for the 2500 bump stop. (just a rubber bushing bolted to the frame instead of the extended component)
The replacement t-case came off a 4L80-e transmission. Realized the output primary between the two transmissions is different. Blew the t-case apart and swapped the 4-low primary input cog from the NP8 off the silverado to get the mating right. I installed a new pump (with the anti wear tabs) and put new bearings, seals, races in it before buttoning it up and installing it in the truck. Did it all on the bench.
The stock front diff was replaced with the heavier variant to match that of the rear differential housing. As a pair. 3.73 gears open configuration. I got the axle shafts, lower control arms, upper control arms, wheel ends, bearings and brake hardware, torque rods, and torque rod bracket-keys with the diff to ensure there was no un-sprung weight problems, and maintain the structural integrity of the front suspension. THIS is where I hit two pretty hefty snags. One snag was the differential housing off the 2500 is 15% larger overall, with a much longer pinion then the 1/2 tonne diff. Larger ring gear, and just overall beefier. I had to shave the housing in a few areas to squeak it in.. I had to shim the passenger side bolt up mount, re-position the bushings to center the diff in the narrower chassis, I finished it off by fabricating a new lower bracket pocket (bolt in) so it could be secured to the truck adequately and keep the front end from folding itself in.
Because I swapped the rear diff and changed the bolt pattern, I did not want to run 2 different spares with the truck. 8 bolt out back.. 8 bolt up front. This meant the wheel ends needed to change as the wheel bearings are different. Also the brakes between the trucks are different and I wanted equal braking all around the truck. The lower control arms as you already know are a direct dimensional replacement with very minor differences. One has a kick in it (the 2500) and the other is flat (1500). I can live with that. However the upper control arms between the series are quite different dimentionally. Well into the not-compatible category. The reach on the 2500 is shorter (to bolt up to the tapered ball joint receiver on the wheel end) along with the taper shape and this equates to a suspension geometry problem during its cycle (full extend to full compression) due to radius sweep differences. And the mount locations on the frame rail are different, the 2500 rear bushing mount is further aft then the 1500. The 2500 is a wide arm, where the 1500 is narrow arm. One is made from stamped steel, and the other is a cast piece. They might work if the truck had a 4inch suspension lift.. ones that repositions the lower control arm bolt locations and dropps the differential to maintain CV shaft angles, however I don't want a lifted truck. I already have a Ranger that's lifted and this isn't a bush truck.. this is my winter driving highway wagon toy hauler road-trip maker.
The 1/2 shafts (cv's) between the 2500 and the 1500 have a length difference (9-16ths) which results in the need to swap the wheel-end spline on the 2500 half-shaft to that of the 1500. If the 2500 half shaft is installed as is.. under full extension the shaft bottoms out inside the CV pockets. Now this is a 'projected' solution. I'm saying I haven't done it yet. But being that the front clip dimensions between the trucks are different and GM is known to keep things dirt simple across series. I EXPECT this will be the solution as the splined outer on the half-shaft likely has the same internal dimensions as the heavier 2500 counterpart. Pull one off, and install the other.. voila.
I obviously can't align the truck in this configuration. (upper control arms off of a 1500 and lower control arm, wheel end 2500) without the replacement of the upper control arm to correct the suspension geometry. As it sits bolted together right now.. when the suspension compresses there is a severe toe out condition, and under extension its an opposite toe in situation. The tie rod and the lower ball joint cycle together but the upper joint radius is not in sync with the tie rod end or the lower ball joint. Not to mention to get the truck to sit close to right, the camber adjustment bolts must be cranked all the way in till they turn no more (all the way in), and the ride height up front must be reduced to get it to not look...well.. stupid. To make matters worse.. it can be set up empty and be near true alignment, but the moment any weight is put in the truck.. a toe in situation begins to emerge and negitive camber starts to appear.
I have a couple of options, but I am interested in some other input into this rather then experimenting and throwing allot of money at a problem when there's a perfect solution buried somewhere. I have searched google for the last week, and spoke to a few custom companies but not the right ones as no one appears to be answering my emails. I need a custom upper control arm.. one with the short reach of the 2500 but the narrow bushing width of the 1500 all in one package. At last resort I will make one. But being that so much rides on this upper control arm, the idea of making one is asking for trouble. I'm not an engineer.
There are going to be folks asking why, and I understand that what I have done may not appear to be very logical, and I understand, know its quite alright. Innovation is innovation. I climb a mountain cause its there. I am looking for a solution, the best one. These days ya gotta fix what ya got instead of just giving up and going the ignorant route.
I have hundreds of pictures documenting the build, before and after shots..etc. As soon as I get the time, I will upload and place them in this thread.
-kenn
